How to Raise Healthy Kids: A Functional Medicine Approach

Mark Hyman, MD

Full Transcript

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Dr. Mark Hyman:
Coming up on this episode of the doctor's Farmacy.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Cross the board when I tell parents and kids when they're sitting in front of me, if they have any sort of attention concerns, behavioral concerns, focus concerns, anxiety. I mean, that's so many kids are suffering from anxiety nowadays. And when I tell them that 80 to 90 percent of the serotonin in their bodies is made by their gut microbiome. Right? And then usually there's a positive parents in kids, like, What?

Right? So that's a perfect segue into listen. Let's think about all the things that are happening that are disrupting your gut microbiome. And so that's an easier in to say, let's look at the food.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I'm always talking about the health benefits of wild caught Hyman, and it's one of the easiest ways to up your intake of protein and healthy omega-three fats. And eating it twice a week can cut your risk of a heart attack stroke, high blood pressure, and high triglycerides, but it has to be top quality salmon. And, sadly, most salmon you find online are in grocery stores. The salmon is double frozen, meaning it's frozen whole, thawed out for processing, then refrozen before it's sold to you. This process often resolve and lower quality fish when it comes to taste and texture.

And that's why I love butcherbox. Not only do they make it really easy to get healthy meats and, like, a 100% grass fed beef and organic brings chicken, but they also partner with responsible fisheries to source some of the best wild caught sustainably harvested elaskan salmon on the planet. Also better for your checkbook because right now, as a special offer to my listeners, ButcherBox is giving you two pounds of wild caught salmon from Alaska. Free in your first order plus $20 off your first box. Just go to butcherbox.comforward/Farmacy That's Mark.

Before we get into today's episode, I'd like to take a minute to remind you some exciting news. My new cookbook, the young forever cookbook will be released on Tuesday, June 4th, nationwide. In my new cookbook, the cooking companion to my book, Young Forever, you'll find over 100 mouth watering anti inflammatory recipes that are gonna help you live a longer healthier life. You can preorder the young forever cookbook at young forever cookbook.com. Just click on the pre order button at the top right.

I'm so excited to share these recipes with you and so much more. And again, the young forever cookbook comes out on Tuesday, June 4th. Preorder yours today. Welcome to doctor's Farmacy. I'm doctor Dr. Mark Hyman:, and this is a place for conversations that matter.

And if you're concerned about the epidemic of our childhood health crisis, everything from ADD to autism to allergies to immunity, depression, anxiety. You name it. Our kids are suffering obesity, diabetes, and kids. It's really a crisis. And We have someone today on the podcast who's an expert in understanding the root causes of these problems.

And novel ways to think about them through the lens of functional medicine, stock Rolisa Song, who's a pediatrician. She trained at Stanford, NYU, and UCSF. She's an extraordinary physician who's written a book called Healthy Happy Kids, and has a wonderful website called healthy happy kids.com that is providing wonderful resources to parents And we met 20 years ago at a conference where she heard me speak, and it led her to dive into this field of functional and integrated and care, which is so important because we've seen this burgeoning epidemic of of severe childhood health crisis. And now we're seeing for the first time in history children being born today that are gonna live sicker, shorter lives than their parents. And we're gonna talk about how to prevent that.

And on today's podcast, we talk about everything from how to understand the root causes of why our kids are suffering, our toxic diet, environmental toxins, changes to our microbiome, Hyman we learned about how to optimize kids microbiome as a key strategy to keep them healthy life long. We talk about testing kids with lab tests, nutritional supplements, how we deal with vaccines and how we talk about the controversies around vaccines, which are definitely quagmire and lots more. So I know you're gonna love this conversation with doctor Lisa song and myself. He said it's so great to have you on the doctor's Farmacy podcast. We've known each other for 20 years now, maybe.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Pretty much. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And, we met at a conference years ago on food as medicine. I was speaking. You were in the audience, and I think it had an impact on you because, look at you now. You just came out with this great new book, have healthy, happy kids and integrated pediatricians guide to hold child resilience, and our kids are definitely not resilient today.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Well, I just, you know, I I really want to thank you because if I If I hadn't met you back in, you know, was it 2001, whatever it was, I probably wouldn't be doing this today. And I say that in all honesty, I mean, you really are one of the pivotal moments in time where, you know, they say when you're ready for the right teacher, the right teacher will come. And that was it. I mean, I was fresh at a residency. Kinda thinking, I don't know if I really wanna do this.

Right? I spent all this time and then hearing you speak and really thinking about the power of food as medicine. No one had I've never heard that set before. Never heard of functional medicine. And I thought that's what I wanna do.

Yeah. I'm doing it.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You know, essentially, when I when I hear this story a lot, because, you know, we we we go into medicine wanting to do good and usually caring about helping people and And we learn all the science. We learn all the biology. We learn all the drugs and all the diseases. Yeah. And we think we're equipped to really help people, but when we get out there, we go, It's sort of not like I thought it was.

The landscape isn't the same, and we thought that we would be doing the things that would actually be making a difference, but often what we're doing was just medicating people Yeah. And and naming the diseases and then giving the drug for that particular condition, and it really didn't solve the problem. And and so, you know, hear this from a lot of doctors. Like, when they hear the paradigm of functional medicine, they go, god, this just makes so much sense. Like, this is actually what I wanted to do.

Is actually what medicine should be. And what you've done in your pediatrician is take this body of knowledge, which hasn't really been well applied to children, and you've really taken that on. It had been a leader in the field now of functional, intuitive pediatrician care.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That is my mission because you know, as a pediatrician, you have this you have such a golden opportunity. I mean, you have this this kind of unwritten map in front of you beautiful child that you want them to have the best chance in life to be as successful, thriving as possible. And I'd say that the biggest contrast when when I try explain to families what the difference between a functional medicine approach is versus a conventional pediatric approach. I mean, we need conventional pediatric. I mean, we need to have medications, that are necessary when they are and conventional medicines created putting out fires, but It it places us in this disease based model.

So as parents and as practitioners, we have in mind, oh my gosh, I wanna prevent this from happening to my child. I wanna prevent disease. And when we look at functional medicine, we can what we hold in our mind is that picture of a child thriving to their optimal potential. And and we move towards that instead of running away towards something. So it's it's a subtle mindset shift, but it's the only way we're gonna make a difference in kids health.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
It's so important. And I mean, I graduated in medical school in 1987. I trained in family medicine and took care of kids, and the amount of disease in kids now is staggering.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
The amount of chronic disease staggering. You know, 1 in 10 kids has ADHD. 40% of kids are overweight. One in four teenage boys have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes. We used to call adult onset.

Yeah. Depression suicide. You know, behavioral issues, ADHD, autism. They're just exploding. You know, I had Suzanne go on the podcast the other day, and You know, she's a a pediatric neurologist, and we've gone from, like, 1 in 10,000 kids with autism to 136 kids today.

And I remember giving talks about this you know, 20 years ago, it was, like, 1 in a 100 now, and it was 169. Now it's 1 in 36. It's, like, what's happening with all the allergic disorders, autoimmune diseases, got issues, behavioral issues, ADD, mental health issues. What's going on that our kids are now so sick. I mean, I get it if you're, like, 70.

You get chronic illnesses, but you shouldn't really deny it, but if you do the right things, but I I I mean, this didn't Hyman, I mean.

Dr. Elisa Song:
You didn't. We didn't.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
What the heck it happened?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. It's time to wake up, but it was time to wake up decades ago. Part of why I was so drawn to functional medicine was that New England Journal of Medicine study back in 2005. I mean, this is 20 ago, where researchers noted that for the very first time in history, our kids are expected to have shorter lifespans than us, their parents. Let me summon history with all of our medical advances.

And so we should have woken up then, and that was entirely due to lifestyle related diseases. Yeah. Even during the pandemic, the World Health Organization said that 8 in 10 people die of non communicable lifestyle related diseases. And so when I think about, you know, what's going on with children, why have things changed? Because like you, I mean, my I I don't ever remember a kid puffing away on an inhaler or, you know, have caring epi pens.

And, there was no such diagnosis as sensory processing order. Now so many kids have sensory issues. And when I volunteer in my kid's classroom, it's heartbreaking to see the number of kids who are, you know, rolling around on the floor. Not comfortable in their bodies or their brains and, on field trips carrying bags of medications for these kids. Yeah.

So I think fundamentally not to be simplistic, but I really think that at at kind of that deeper, truly root cause level, Our kids' microbiomes have completely changed. I mean, when you look at, the protective factor of breast milk, and Bifidobacter. And we know how important Bifidobacter in that developing infant microbiome is to supporting those butyrate producing species. Like F Prow and rosiberia.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Well, what? Bacteria, folks, if you don't know what you're saying. They've got bugs. They're good. The good guys.

Dr. Elisa Song:
The good guys.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Gut bugs. Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
The ones we want. And we want a lot of Bifidau, but the the breastfed baby of today Their gut microbiome looks much more like the formula fed microbiome of the baby a 100 years ago. I mean, there's been a drastic shift.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Formula fed microbiome of a 100 years ago. They had formula 100 years ago.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. And so when you look at that, this this loss of all of this Bifidobacter and the loss of butyrate, which is, you know, it's a post biotic, right, or master regulator health. I just I want I really wanna see more research on that because I feel like if we could shift that and we know that Bifidobacter is really important when we lose Bifidobacter We we tend towards a TH2 skewing of our immune system. So that means guys more eczema asthma allergies. Yeah.

Guess what? We're seeing an explosion. Right? We we can see a a th17 skewing. That's auto immunity.

And guess what? The age group with the largest increase, like double the rate since the eighties triple since the early 2000. The rates of autoimmunity are bloating in our twelve to nineteen year olds. Yeah. Why is that?

Right? That's sort of, you know, at that underneath level. But why are there a microbiomes changing? Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
But just to be clear, what you're saying, you're saying breastfed kids today don't have a good microbiome because there's something changed about the breast Mark.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Possibly. Possibly. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
It's the same as formula fed kids a 100 years ago. Well, we're formula fed kids. The microbounds okay then. Well I don't think so.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Then. No. Well, back then, Babies microbines were nearly 100% Bifidobacter, which is not the case now. Right? So, I mean, we can think about why that's that has occurred.

I mean, even during the pandemic, there was, a research paper by doctor Hyman that could predict that people who had lower levels of bifurte of actor had more severe COVID outcomes. So

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
It's something, you know, about Bifidobacter that really is helping to inform our immune system. And in those early infant stages Yeah. That 0 to three years of age, that critical time where your microbiome is literally kind of imprinting your immune system, setting the stage for either optimal immune development, or cell optimal. If we don't understand the factors to start with the healthy gut microbiome in life, it's a lot harder to change later. It's not impossible but it's a lot harder.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I mean, you devote a lot of your book healthy, happy kids to the gut microbiome, and it's really how you start out Mhmm. As the fundamental way that that things are being disregulated. And for people listening, as we've heard many times on the podcast, that they got microbiome is linked to, like, just to allergies and autoimmunity and eczema, but also to obesity, also to mental health disorders. So to ADHD, autism, learning disabilities, So the microbiome is huge across the whole spectrum of the things we're seeing in kids today. And there is an incredible phenomena that's which is a wiping out of this particular species called Bifidobacterium Infantus, which is, I think, what you're talking about.

And Infantus means no infant. It's, right? Hyman it comes generally from the mother, right, who's gives it to their baby as they pass through the birth canal. Yep. But the problem is we've given so many antibiotics over the last 60, 70 years to people.

I don't think there's a woman on the planet who has probably had antibiotics or maybe for certainly in America who hasn't had antibiotics at some point in their life. And these are super sensitive bacteria that just wipe them out. So even if you're, you know, even if you're giving a badge on birth, these kids still may not may not get

Dr. Elisa Song:
this Yep.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And there's actually a company that has actually created a the strain. It's a baby probiotic. Colonizes the gut because often And this is I think so important for people listening or having kids or planning to have kids or have grandkids about to have grandkids that this this probiotic should be a mandatory part of prenatal care and early early infant care because it's easy to give. It's safe and it actually colon sizes, which most probiotics don't. As you get older, they just pass through.

Yeah. So it colonizes established, and it showed it's been shown to actually reduce the burden of asthma and allergic disorders and all these things that that you're talking about. So can you talk about why we've seen this decline and kind of almost absence of this? And and and how people can actually start to rebuild their gut.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And just to, you know, point out the the probiotic, it's this particular one. It's great. Good research behind it. It's indicated really only for for breastfed babies. And and here's here's why because Bifid of feeds on human milk oligosaccharides, these prebiotics found in breast milk, primarily to something called 2 FL, 2 Fekausilactos.

So what I wish is that all babies would get not just this probiotic, but also we can now we have we have manufactured to FL as a prebiotic. I mean, that should be mandatory because even if a baby is in formula fed, this bit of doctor species feeds on the 2 FL. It requires this. So, I mean, could you imagine a different world that we would have. It would

Dr. Mark Hyman:
be quite amazing. And this is really a really simple, very safe intervention that should be standard of care and PDI centric and, and maternal infant child care. Right? Yeah. But it's I mean, I mentioned there's not too many pediatricians or even OBGYNs who even know about this.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I think the awareness is growing, but I think there has to be more of an awareness, I think, taught, I mean, really from medical school, right, on the impact of of the developing gut microbiome. I mean, we know that antibiotics or anti acid medications, as you noted, antibiotics, I mean, they wipe out in some antibiotics insidiously preferentially kill off your beneficial probiotics

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Mhmm. And

Dr. Elisa Song:
preserve things like clostridia.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
The bad bugs.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Right? Hyman so antibiotics or anti acid medications, which can do the same thing, given in the 1st 6 months of life, that one of the critical windows nearly double significantly increase the risk of virtually every single allergic disease. Yep. And the same thing with This

Dr. Mark Hyman:
is all data. This is not you're not just making this stuff up. Stan for NYU, UCF trained physician who understands science and has used the data to inform your opinions, it's this data that's being ignored by most pediatricians and most health care facilities. Yeah. And you're bringing it to light to helping parents actually learn how to optimize their kids' health and deal with some of these.

Because Most of the things we're talking about obesity, allergic disorders, autoimmunity, eggs, and all these things that kids have Mark really preventable. If we start early, even even before the mother conceives. Yeah. And with things that do the mother and then after the during pregnancy and after, it's so important.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I'm gonna guess that many of the listeners are their kids are already born, older, maybe grown. Maybe they're thinking about grandkids. Right? And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
so young listeners too. So Yeah. For sure.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And, you know, deal time to optimize a mom's microbiome is before you conceive. I mean, that if we if we truly implemented functional medicine preconception programs in every single OBGYN office, I would be out of a job. Right? Yeah. Great.

But what are the factors that perpetuate, you know, this this declining this changing of her gut microbiome. I mean, you mentioned one of them, right, antibiotics. I mean, that's the the single biggest, significant acute disruptor of the microbiome. In some studies, up to 70 percent of antibiotics prescribed to children are inappropriately prescribed, whether for viruses or maybe broader spectrum, like too too, quote, too strong. But the other 2 that are just insidious every single day, we have to point out for our children today and our teenagers today, chronic and unmanaged psychological stress.

Can significantly disrupt the gut microbiome

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Can immediately within an hour trigger leaky gut and zonulin release. And so we we need to, you know, really figure out how are we gonna help our kids manage their gut brain connection?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
So leaky guy just for people listening is when your barrier gets disrupted in your gut and food particles and bacterial toxins leaking and your immune system reacts, creating inflammation, and that leads to all the things we've been talking about from mental health issues to obesity, to allergic, and autoimmune thing. Now eating well is a critical part of reaching my health goals, but something as simple as getting to the store can be a challenge with my schedule. And that's why thrive market is my go to all of my organic grocery and household essentials. The convenience of getting it all quickly shipped to my doorstep is a huge time saver, and it helps keep me from just grabbing whatever is fast, which usually means bad for you. I especially love stocking up on snacks from Thrive Market.

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Dr. Elisa Song:
And then the other thing, it's, as you well know, and, you know, one of your first books, really, our our Ultra process world. I mean, these ultra processed foods, you know, the the research behind the effects on children of anything lags behind the adult research, but now we're really seeing that research. So especially these food emulsifiers that can directly harm the gut microbiome, I mean, the FDA allows some emulsifiers at levels in infant formula that are known to be harmful. So, I mean, that's one thing, but then we have all of the packaged foods, the the artificial dyes, the emulsifiers. And, I mean, I have to cringe at some of the the things that My kid says, oh, so and so is eating this.

Can I try something too? Yeah. You're right. We, I mean, we have that conversation. But, you know, that is one of the most kind of insidiously in inflammatory things.

And and it's not even just the quote junk food. It's the foods that, you know, we as parents, when we're trying to make healthy choices for our kids, We don't have the knowledge. We, I mean, collectively, lack enough of the knowledge about how to read these label really from a functional medicine, you know, microbiome friendly way so that so that we're really doing good for our kids. So that that has to get out there. And Sadly, I mean, the truth is the food industry and the FDA are not gonna help us here.

So we need to get the word out.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I know we're actually working on it. I don't know if you know this, but I'm working on it by nonprofit called the food fix campaign. And one of our efforts is child friendly food labeling. Oh. So we we can grade foods like make the grade, right, a to f.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
A is grade and f, you fail. Right?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And it gives people a sense of of agency around what they're choosing because reading the front of package labeling or reading the ingredient list or reading the nutrition facts label is super confusing, and it's designed to be that way. Designed to create confusion and misinformation so that people think they're getting something healthy when it's not.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Now

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I wanna look back to what you said about breast milk because really is an important conversation. 25 percent of the calories in breast milk are from what you just described as these oligosaccharides. Here's this type of sugars that humans cannot digest that are only designed to feed the good gut bugs. Think about Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And formula doesn't have it. Yeah. And when you when you look at the the microbiome of formula fed kids versus breast fed kids, It's very different. There's more butyrate producing species with breastfed kids, which is the healthy short chain fats, and there's more propinate producing species with the formula for kids, which can cause autism and all kinds of weird things. It's a toxic metabolite.

And so, what advice would you give, you know, Parents's preconception and, women who are pregnant and then early early after birth to do to help their microbiome and their children's microbiome. And I I did and by the way, I did do a podcast, a solo podcast on preparing to conceive. Oh, I From a functional medicine perspective, like, what you need to do That's right. To get things ready so you can actually maximize your chances of having a healthy baby because it's not just your gut microbiome. It's your whole epigenetic programming that you can modify while you're while you're preparing to conceive and and during during pregnancy.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
What can parents and and mothers and do before they get pregnant during pregnancy and after to deal with this microbiome crisis that we have.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Well, and and I wanna also really, point out, I mean, some something so important that you said that while even before we conceive, even on dad's Mark, because we all think, oh, it's not that bomb. Right? But even on dad, part. There are so many things that we can do to help support optimal epigenetic programming to live in our modern world because that is so important. I mean, we have this power.

And, you know, part of it is microbiome. Part of it is psychological stress during pregnancy and before. But so for a mom, I mean, what what I would say is if you are trying to conceive, then make sure all your nutrients are optimized. Don't just take your doctor's word for it that your vitamin d levels Mark, quote, because if they're out of 22, that may be normal, but it's not optimal for you as a mom pregnant and for your baby's developing immune system for their brains. We know that that low vitamin d levels in moms can increase the risk for, let's say, things like autism later on.

Right? Also making sure that that to the extent possible, either working with a functional doc to get us analysis. Make sure, you know, you're you're off here. Yep. Check your poop.

Check to make sure that you have all the good stuff in and any abnormal bacteria any any inflammation, any leakiness is addressed.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You take care of that before you can see it.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Before before because the, you know, the, I mean, there there's It's come into question whether or not, you know, the the womb is actually sterile. So but but primarily, we still believe, primarily the way that babies get inoculated is through the vaginal canal

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Mhmm.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Or, you know, through the abdomen, right, the abdominal wall and skin if there's c section birth. And so, you know, that's that's something that we just have to make sure. I mean, there's our even tests that can look at mom's oral microbiomes, which we know is so important for fertility and also vaginal microbiome. So try kind of like head to toe. Yeah.

You know, inside out optimizing your microbiome. If you don't have a functional medicine doctor to work with, then making sure you're doubling down on on food as medicine for your microbiome. So we know worldwide, I mean, in the United States, in particular, 95% of people don't meet fiber requirements. Yeah. And our fiber requirements in the United States are are kind of shamefully low anyway.

So we you need to do that. Why fiber? Because fiber, it's the prebiotic that feeds your microbiome. 810 Americans don't get enough color. There's a a color gap.

Yeah. Right? And the phytonutrients actually can act as prebiotics and and modify your epigenetic future. So, I mean, just all those things in fermented foods and all of that. So you gotta, I mean, more more than taking a supplement

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Which Yes. Take a probiotic supplement because there

Dr. Mark Hyman:
are success. Is really, really determined by your diet.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yes. Primarily. Yeah. Now, you know, there are some good studies, older studies, that looked at lactobasil's remnosis, g g, which is a, the most widely studied probiotics strain in children and found that moms who took this lactobacilis, reminosis, gg, during the 3rd trimester and while nursing, if they had a family history of atopy, like eczema asthma, their infants had a significantly reduced risk of eczema and asthma. So great.

Sure. Take that. That's easy to find over the counter.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. You can find in CBS or Walgreens.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Anywhere. It's so easy now. Right? This particular strain and It's

Dr. Mark Hyman:
called lactobacillus Gigi. We'll put in the show notes.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's right. Yeah. The other thing too is really, I mean, we're so stressed. We're so busy nowadays, but but really and truly, part of the prescription for pregnancy needs to be helping to support mom's mental health because we know the transgenerational impact of prenatal psychological stress on your baby's risk for metabolic disease, obesity, heart disease later, even your grandchildren's risk, And so supporting that as much as possible, we don't have villages anymore, but you but we really need to, for mom, know that taking that time out to go for a walk in nature to spend that 10 minutes, you know, meditating while nobody is awake and your toddler's still asleep. You know, all of that, it's not just indulgent.

It's actually really, really important. It is medicine.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. So that's powerful. You talk about the the gut reset program and the 5 things for microbiome magic in your book. Can you kinda unpack that a little bit? Yeah.

And, you know, because, you know, Is it kind of an in a way of discouraging? Because we're we're in a world where we were all taken antibiotics where we're exposed to things like glyphosate, which is really our microbiome, A third of babies are born by C section. Yeah. Original kid gets antibiotics in their 1st year of life. Like, it's just kind of a disaster in terms of the the risk factors for messing up our microbiome.

And it it determines so much of our future health and so much of our children's health, even while their kids, as you mentioned. So how do you think about this gut reset program that you talked about in the 5 things for microbiome magic.

Dr. Elisa Song:
As a pediatrician, I always try to approach things with some fun, you know, some joy, some hope, because as you said, it can be, like, oh my gosh, the world is against me. How can anyone be healthy in this world. And we can. So just, you know, empowering kids and parents to know, there are simple steps that we can take to be healthy and that, you know, for our children, when we do that as a family, Even if they push back as teenagers. Right?

I mean, the inevitable pushback. Right? My kids are are pre teens teenagers. And, you know, there's gonna be pushback. That's part of life.

Right? But if you lay those foundations, they're gonna go back to it. I mean, the teenagers who, you know, knew how to cook. Yeah. Right?

I mean, they were much more likely to choose vegetables when they were off to college. Right? I mean, it's it it it pays it pays it forward. And so You know, the gut reset is is really akin to the 5 hours of functional medicine on how to heal the gut microbiome, but the foundation So the reset would be really if your child has any sort of persistent health concern. And we have to presume if your child has a persistent health concern, Chances are they have a leaky gut.

Chances are they could have gut dysbiosis. Right? Maybe not, but in an abnormal balance of of bacteria, yeast, parasites, I mean, whatever else. I mean, viruses that we're not really yet able to measure yet. Right?

But the foundation of that reset So the r, first r, e, return is returning to those 5 things for microbiome magic. Those are the fundamentals, the essentials. I mean, many people listening have heard the saying that you can't out supplements a bad diet and lifestyle.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Well, you can't heal your microbiome. You can't out supplement a poor diet and a lifestyle for your microbiome.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
There's, I mean, I could tell you 10 different supplements to take. Right. And you might get a little better. And in fact, I've had kids, you know, going through the the got reset when they're like, okay. Not changing the diet.

I'm not gonna go to bed. You know, get 8 hours of sleep. Right? They can get better on the on the supplement plan, and they can even quote, go into remission. But here's here's the thing.

And as as pictures practitioners listening. We've all had this experience where your patient gets better. I mean, that's awesome. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
They're in remission. But then what happens 6 months later,

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. They slide back.

Dr. Elisa Song:
They start sliding back. Right? I mean, what we want is I don't want you to call it remission. Right? I wanna call it okay.

This is your new state of health. Right. This is this is your new normal now. Right? And so I have parents who are kind of, you know, just holding their breath waiting for the next shoe to drop because they're like, okay.

When's the next time they're gonna flare, you know, in their pants, panda. So when's the next time, you know, that their rheumatoid arthritis is gonna flare. So those five things, had this opportunity. It was so fun for my kids. They go to a public charter school and rely on parent volunteers to teach some of their, quote, elective And so for their 3rd and 4th grade combined class, so eight to ten year olds, I created a 6 week curriculum, We call it Healthy Valley Happy You.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Uh-huh. It was It's great.

Dr. Elisa Song:
So fun. I mean, we taught all about their microbiome, but made fun.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I bet they love

Dr. Elisa Song:
that. Pooping kids, all about poop, right, and connected the dots to why they're they're these tiny little microscopic friends are so important for, not missing school so much because you're sick or getting along better with your friends or being asleep

Dr. Mark Hyman:
this year. Better in

Dr. Elisa Song:
school. Better in school running faster down the soccer field. Right? So connecting the dots. And these kids, they learned how to look at packages, read food labels, Check the sugar.

Make sure there's nothing artificial. They were going home telling their parents. Mom, I shouldn't have more than 25 grams of added sugar in the day. And look at the look at this. They have, like, this package of, you know, whatever it is.

Let's let's say, or let's say, Boba tea. Right? This is 35 grams of sugar. Now some kids, of course, my kids too included, they may choose to have that. Right?

But at least they know they're making that informed decision. Right? And then they know, okay. How can I get my mic around to bounce back from there? Right?

We meet kombucha.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
So fun.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And sauerkraut. I mean, that's the way to do it. Right? So we just spoke about the 5 things that they have to do every day anyway. So why not just do it for themselves, but for all their trillions of microscopic friends?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You're not alone. Uh-huh.

Dr. Elisa Song:
You know? And really and truly, you know, with I mean, the numbers keep changing, right, but whatever ten times more bacterial cells, you know, on and in us than than human cells. I mean, who are we really nurturing? Right? And so, you know, we have to eat every day.

So why not eat? To support your microbiome. We have to breathe and drink and sleep and move our bodies. Even if you're a couch potato, you're still moving. Right?

How can we do each of those five things in a way that that supports your buddies, supports you, and they were all into it. So

Dr. Mark Hyman:
and, you

Dr. Elisa Song:
know, we go through each of these in the book, but but I would say the 2 most important things, are number 1, nourishing your gut microbiome. And that includes what kind of things you get in So we've already talked about that. A fiber color fermented foods.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Prebiotic foods.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Right? Creating symbiotic meals, right, That means pairing, you know, a fiber filled food with, fermented food. So, I mean, just think like yogurt and, you know, nut and and granola. Right? I mean, right there, right, or blueberries on top, but equally important, especially for our kids who are, you know, quote, picky.

And for parents who are like, Okay. The they don't let a vegetable touch their plate. Like, I I gotta figure something else out. Sometimes even more impactful. Is to teach them how to read food labels to know what to keep out.

Yeah. Right? The things that are are really especially harmful to their gut microbiomes, And I don't make it too complicated, but, you know, I really talk about these food additives. You know, what was hilarious in doing research for the book? There are over 3000 FDA approved food additives.

Right? And the list, it's called everything added to food in the United States. Mean, what a silly lister. But but 3 over 3000 to make our food taste better.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Wow.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Sweeter, saltier, have a better mouth feel. I mean, it's it's creepy. Right? Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And these things aren't really food, and they're and they're mostly not regulated. They mostly have been tested. Yep. They're often not allowed in other countries like in Europe.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Hyman and, we use them here right now. Kellogg is is getting a bit of a a backlash because it it produces foods in America that have certain colors and additives that they don't allow in Canada and other countries. And they remove those from other countries, products that they sell where they sell Kellogg's, but they don't remove it in America. So our kids are getting exposed to very harmful things that they're protected from in other countries.

Dr. Elisa Song:
It's true. You know, they were big to do about getting rid of the artificial colors. You know, this was, I mean, was probably about 10 years ago. You know, I was really excited. And then they pulled back.

Right? They said, well, you know, first of all, we're not removing those because they're actually harmful. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Second of all, you know, the American people, they actually prefer the brighter colors, and they prefer x, y, and z. I mean, come on.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
It's They might also prefer, cocaine in every corner in a Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, it's so so it is true. I mean, Europe, I mean, Europe already for for years has had a warning label that, you know, with artificial dyes and preservatives can affect children's behavior, and and attention and focus. And so, teaching kids how to keep those things out really impactful. And I'll just I'll I'll tell you a quick story on just how we had had, you know, before when we bumped into each other in the hallway, and we were chatting about just how quickly kids can get better, you know, compared to adults. And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
It's true. Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Kids aren't filled with all the you know, the the toxins, whether they're physiologic toxins or, environmental toxins and psychological toxins. 100% more resilient. And so small changes can have profound results. And, you know, there's this one kiddo. He was probably about six years old, tons of behavioral concerns, tons of sensory issues.

He didn't feel right in his skin. He was getting into fights with every kid on his soccer team not a good thing. His occupational therapist was really astute and referred into me and said, I don't think this is just sensory issues. Right? There's something else going on.

Yep. Sat with a mom who was just, I mean, exhausted at her wits end. One of the things that was heartbreaking for her was this was her son. Yeah. He just couldn't stay on touch.

So when she would kiss him, he would wipe it off. Right? He just moved away from her hub. I mean, that's heartbreaking as a mom.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. Of course.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And so as we sat and talked about different tests that we might do, just to figure out dive a little deeper, could there be some

Dr. Mark Hyman:
What did you find?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Well, I mean, this kiddo did end up having pants. Okay. So that's sort of, you know, the the backstory there. There was something different going on for his sensory but as you're

Dr. Mark Hyman:
going that, you just said pants.

Dr. Elisa Song:
So pants, pediatric acute onset, neuropsychiatric syndromes.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Which is a mouthful, but it just means kids have these weird neuropsychiatric problems. We don't know what it is. Yeah. And, it's called the syndrome because we have no clue how to deal with that.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's right. That's right.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
We actually

Dr. Elisa Song:
do. And, for some kids, an abrupt pretty dramatic onset of OCD, food restrictions, aggression, separation, anxiety, cognitive decline, handwriting decline. Pants can have many different causes. So that's where, as a functional medicine practitioner, you need to do the digging because it could be mold, you know, mycotoxins. It could be infections, like like strep.

And when it's caused by strep, it's caused pan deaths.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
So pediatric acute neuropsychiatric syndrome disorders associated with streptococcal infection. That's another mouthful, but so he ended up having that, but here's the thing. After his soccer practices and games, often there would be treats of, like, the bright neon blue gatorade, right, and and the skittles and the, you know, and the family otherwise was was pretty healthy in terms of their diet, but it was just this thing that, well, it's a treat after soccer. Right? All his friends Mark doing it.

So You know, as we're thinking about the testing, I said, look. Let's just do one thing right now. One thing. Let's just remove all of the artificial colors. And preservatives from inside.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
The fine gold diet. Right? Fine gold was this

Dr. Elisa Song:
The fine gold. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Pediatrician back in the seventies who said food addicts were causing ADHD.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. It's, I mean There

Dr. Mark Hyman:
was something to it. It's not in every case, but, yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
As a pediatrician, I think, is really important to not just say to do something, but make it concrete. Yeah. So we we went through and figured, okay, the gatorade. Okay. What's an equally acceptable, non artificial, no artificial sweeteners either, no sucralose, no asper team, hydration drink.

He can drink.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. I

Dr. Elisa Song:
mean, how about coconut water? Right? But there are other hydration drinks that are much cleaner than than the gatorade. Right? The skittles, what could be re replace that with?

You know? So so we really concretely discuss what swaps to make.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And then she went home. She's a little overwhelmed by everything, right, as as can happen in that first visit. It's like drinking from a fire hose sometimes, but but she was committed. And mom took out the artificial dies. He sent me a message 2 weeks later.

2 weeks. Right? 2 weeks. I have the message from her in in my portal, and I just it makes me tear up every time I think about it. And she said she just wanted to thank me because for the time she couldn't remember in so long, he didn't wipe away her kiss, right, for the first time.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And

Dr. Elisa Song:
he even asked for a

Dr. Mark Hyman:
That's amazing.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Right? So, I mean, 2 weeks is not that long. And so that's where the mindset shift has to happen because a lot of people think I'm depriving my kid, or maybe it's, like, your partner.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. I

Dr. Elisa Song:
mean, we're we're not depriving your kids. Right? We're helping them thrive.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I mean, I wanna pause it for a sec because you you what you said was just so important that there are these kids walking around with all these health issues that are treated by traditional medicine usually with Medicaid or with nothing. Like, there's no treatment for sensory issues with kids. It's just like, you know, behavioral therapy or other kinds of therapies that really don't work that well. And what you're saying is that there are underlying biological causes of many of the things that are correctable. And that kids respond really quickly and really well to these things in the ways that sometimes adults don't.

So being a pediatrician has be extremely satisfying when you're using this approach. When you're not, you're just kinda putting band aids and everything, and it can be a very frustrating. I think pediatricians have one of the lowest job satisfactions and has burnout rates. And it's because they're really kind of just on this treadmill of traditional care, which isn't actually helping their patients. If you're, case you reminded me of a boy, care of who was twelve years old, who was so disruptive, severe ADHD kicked out of kindergarten.

You know? I mean, who gets kicked out of kindergarten? Yeah. He was on ADD medications, and he had all these other issues that were not, quote, psychiatric. Right?

He had stomach aches. He had anal itching. He had asthma. He had allergies. He had headaches.

He had anxiety. He had saw me, like, he had all

Dr. Elisa Song:
the the things.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Muscle cramps. I mean, he had all these things that were really problematic, but were treated these different specialists. He was on 7 different medications. Yeah. And what we found was that he lived on a diet of processed food.

We did a bunch of testing, and I wanna talk about testing because I think it's an important thing for for how do we sort of figure out what's going on with our kids. And we did a number of tests, and we found he was severely nutritional and efficient in almost everything, vitamin d, b 6, magnesium, zinc, you know, just like omega 3 fats. He would have high levels of all these trans fats in his blood. He had from all the processed food. He had high levels of inflammatory fats.

He had high levels of really toxic stuff in his system like lead, and his gut was a mess. He had overgrowth of yeast and leaky gut and food sensitivities, and he had gluten antibodies from eating gluten that he was sensitive to. And, you know, all I did was really do what you're talking about reset his gut, put him on a whole foods diet, get rid of the bad bugs, put in some probiotics, get him get him the nutrients he needed, some a multi Vitamin D, Fisherll, Zinc, Magnesium, B6. 2 months later, the mom brought him back and and said, he's a completely different kid. Yeah.

He's got no ADD. He's off all his medications. He has no more headaches, no more stomach aches, no more asthma, no more any of the other things he was suffering with. He stopped drinking all the sodas and everything. He was drinking all the junk food.

And, his handwriting, which was the thing that that blew my mind. Went from completely illegible to completely perfect penmanship. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, wow.

Like, this is crazy. When you see something like this, you go as a doctor, you go, either you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your paradigm. Or you go, wait a minute. There's something I've been missing.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
that the body and the brain are connected in ways that are so important. And so Whether kids got sensory or behavioral issues or whether the kids got allergic autoimmune issues, it's so important to get, up the proper evaluation So how do you start to think about looking at these kids who are who are stuck? 1 is prevention. Right? We talked about that.

Getting the mother's health and the father's health great preconception. They both need to be on the right supplements, correct the things that are off, fix their cuts, get rid of the metals, all the things we talk about. Now you can listen to podcasts and preparing to conceive as a what to do for both men and Hyman. But then we have all these kids who are suffering and and these kids with chronic illnesses. These I mean, I these kids who are on multiple medications and who are stuck in this treadmill that they're on for life and that they're gonna have consequences their whole life long from these conditions.

Yep. And then maybe allergies, tone, and talk to immunity when they get older, and it's just a kind of a mess. So when you have these kids who come in to see you and they have you know, ADHD or autism or autoimmunity or they're allergic to everything or they have eczema. How do you start to think about assessing these patients and helping these parents think about taking care of their kids in a different way.

Dr. Elisa Song:
With the child present too, I mean, we I always want to educate and inform kids in an age appropriate way. So I think that's where, making sure kids are on board for with the whole plan is really important that they understand. Yeah. Of course. Because mom comes home and just says, okay.

We're gonna overhaul your diet I mean, it's it's not necessary for some kids in my but for many kids, it's not gonna work. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I'm not showing the kids that are test like, here, look at this. You're allergic

Dr. Elisa Song:
to gluten

Dr. Mark Hyman:
or look

Dr. Elisa Song:
at this.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You've got.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Across the board, when I tell parents and kids, when they're sitting in front of me, If they have any sort of attention concerns, behavioral concerns, focus concerns, anxiety. I mean, that's so many kids Mark suffering from anxiety nowadays. And when I tell them that 80 to 90 percent of the serotonin in their bodies is made by their gut microbiome. Right?

And then Usually, there's a pause in parents in kids like, what? Right. So that's a perfect segue into, listen, let's think about all the things that are happening that are disrupting your gut microbiome. And so that's an easier in to say, let's look at the foods. Right?

It's not just about, like, what you're eating. It's just it's about, okay. What factors are, you know, harming your gut microbiome. And, you know, guaranteed no matter what kits have, we can kinda link it to that. That's an easier I think to have a conversation around food.

Interesting. And you have to you have to work with their goals, right, for for parents, it might be, you know, to And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
what do they want? They wanna feel better.

Dr. Elisa Song:
What do they want? Exactly.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Do better in school. They wanna

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Yeah. The foundations, as you said, I mean, we always talk about the foundations of food as medicine. That sometimes is the hardest thing to to change, honestly, right, for for a lot of kids and talking about, I mean, even for this one teenager who came in and and he's been gluten free on and off, and it I mean, he knows it makes a huge difference for him, but he's he was having a flair of of his,

Dr. Mark Hyman:
from other kids just wanna eat that pizza. Well, so

Dr. Elisa Song:
he was having a flair. And he came to me, and we did some testing. He's like, just please please don't tell me I have to go off the gluten. And I'm like, look. I'm not gonna tell you you have to.

But I'm gonna tell you, you know, what decisions are going to help serve your body and your brain and make you feel better. Right? And he took some time to think about it. And, of course, I expect that in a teenager, right, but especially for teenagers, you know, I I let them know that we're working as a team and the decisions you make. I mean, teenagers, they're all about, you know, trying to make it be an adult.

You know, I'm independent, but if you're going to be given the opportunity to make adult decisions, then you have to make them like an adult.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. And

Dr. Elisa Song:
make them with information. But the foundations really, you know, healing the gut are, I mean, the foundations. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
But you test kids. I mean, you do testing and diagnostics.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, when I the first thing I'll test is blood work for nutrient deficiencies.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You have

Dr. Elisa Song:
to optimize. So the foundations are the CBC. I do a keratin. Yes. Complete blood count.

A ferritin.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Which looks at iron.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Mhmm. That looks at iron stores. I'd like to do a comprehensive metabolic panel that's fasting. Because I wanna see what their blood sugar is doing even for fit active slim kids. So many more kids are showing signs of insulin resistance.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. Right. Pre diabetes in kids.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Right? Even for kids that don't fit the overweight. Can you measure the insulin levels? So I measure fasting insulin, fasting blood, blood sugar in the comprehensive metabolic panel. I look at their liver enzymes specifically too because AST and ALT can start to creep up.

I do hemoglobin A1c, but that's rarely high. I mean, because it's just the average blood sugar. Right? So if they're most kids are kind of rollercoastering up and down. Right?

So if they have low lows and high highs, their A1C might look perfect. Right.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I do a red blood cell zinc, a red blood cell magnesium, 25 hydroxy vitamin d, So those are kind of my foundation.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Omega threes?

Dr. Elisa Song:
I do an omega 3 profile. It's not always not always available, but I do add that omega 3 and my omega 6 profile. So and also for the young kids, you can only take so much blood at a time. Yeah. But those are my foundations.

Lately, I've been, you know, really try

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And you're seeing a lot of nutritional deficiencies in these kids? 100%. A 100% of kids having to

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, I'm not gonna say a 100%, maybe 99.9 percent. Okay.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
That way, stop right there. Stop right there. So what you're saying is in the world's most affluent country Mhmm. Where You're probably seeing a fairly high end population

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. Of of people, not people who are highly underserved.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Many who are already who are Healthy.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Already quote healthier. Parents are very proactive. They're coming to see you. In this population, you're seeing almost 100% of kids have 1 or more nutrient deficiencies.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Mhmm. And I'm gonna say, I'll back that up a little bit and say nutrient deficiencies and insufficiencies. Yeah. But not

Dr. Mark Hyman:
optimal levels.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yes. So suboptimal on bottom of the barrel, right, and the most The most common is zinc. Yeah. Okay. Zinc is is the most common nutrient insufficiency and deficiency.

Sometimes it's shocking how low A red blood cell zinc is. If you were to eat, you'd have to eat the equivalent of 8 oranges today to get the nutrients that your grandma had with one orange. I mean, it's probably not quite as simple as that, but our food is less nutrient dense. It's depleted from the glyphosate from you know And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
we're not talking about processed food. We're talking about, like, fruits and vegetables. Yes. And Yes. Food that should be nutrient deaths.

Right?

Dr. Elisa Song:
So that's why even kids who have the quote healthiest diet It's it's not uncommon to see these nutrient deficiencies.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And by the way, what you're talking about, Lisa, is is not something that most doctors or pediatricians will check. They don't check new level on kit. This is not done. Maybe you'll do an iron level on a little kit, but but that's really unusual.

Dr. Elisa Song:
It's unusual. For parents listening who are thinking there's no way I'm gonna get my kid to do a blood draw. There's a numbing, a lidocaine, prilacaine numbing cream that is magic. You put it on your elbows, and, I mean, kids just

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Is that amla?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Emma. It's Emla cream, for

Dr. Mark Hyman:
E m l a.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yep. I would highly recommend that at least a first blood draw that you use Emla so that your kid doesn't feel the poke. And, you know, have a distraction. Right? This is this is screen time has a pass for this where, you know, they can they can watch it, or they can do whatever.

Right? So our food is depleted. Ultra processed foods, deplete our nutrients even further.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Explain why.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Well, so some of the these kind of anti nutrients. Right? I mean, they they compete with absorption for our proper nutrients, even if we're kinda pairing it with healthier foods. And ultra processed foods, they're devoid of most nutrients anyway.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
So the thing with the ultra processed foods is when you read labels, I used to say if you can't pronounce something, put it back, but some of those things are things like riboflavin and,

Dr. Mark Hyman:
you know,

Dr. Elisa Song:
methyl co in Quebec.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Well, they add them to a

Dr. Elisa Song:
rich history. To add back vitamins and minerals.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Like, I always say they're enriched because they're so impoverished in the first place. They have to eat.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's right. Why would you need to add

Dr. Mark Hyman:
you know,

Dr. Elisa Song:
nutrients to a food to to a real food. Right? And so and I also think our kids have a higher need for nutrients. Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
We have more stresses,

Dr. Elisa Song:
more toxins. Yeah. Yep. Less nutrients getting in, more use of them because psychological stress, you need zinc. You need magnesium as as co factors for many of your neurotransmitters.

You need your B vitamins. All of these are getting depleted.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Also, when you eat ultra processed food, you're not getting all the co factors that you need to metabolize. That food. So, basically, in order to process your food in your body, you need a lot of vitamin and minerals to run the chemical reactions to turn the food into energy and do everything else. So You're kind of in a double whammy. You're not getting the nutrients, and you need more of them.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, it's, yeah, it's like a double, triple whammy. You know, it's, and zinc, especially, just as a little pearl for parents listening, and for practitioners, if you have kids who are super picky, sensory, you know, cover their ears when they're in a public toilet or parents have to the kids have to leave if they run the blender or the vacuum, or maybe they they they know to buy seamless socks or cut off all the tags on the shirts. So if you have a kid like this, you know, exactly what I'm talking about. Right? Yeah.

And and that can be one of the most challenging things. Well, zinc deficient see. Alters your taste profile. So can trigger pick pickiness, low appetite. Also, there's there's amplification called auditory gain where sounds sound louder.

The sensory issues, the tactile tags, socks, shoes, all of that. If you have a pediatrician or a physician who is not ordering tests for you or you're not able to find a practitioner order test, sometimes just supplementing with a little extra zinc, and parents will say, oh my gosh. They got out the door in 5 minutes, not 20, because I had to tie their shoes over and over again because they weren't tight enough, right, or pallet is actually expanding a little bit. It could be a simple as that, but knowing that zinc is one of the most common nutrient deficiencies in kids, it can be so profound. Just see I mean, there are clinical clues that kids may be deficient.

But Yeah. I always

Dr. Mark Hyman:
look at that. Zinc taste test?

Dr. Elisa Song:
The tally.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Use a

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's harder for kids, but yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You basically take the zinc liquid. And if you don't taste anything, then you're deficient.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's right.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Because instead of doing a blood test, you can actually do a, just like a test in the officer at home.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Totally.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. So this is amazing. So that sort of speaks to, you know, the need for for supplements because you think, oh, kids are healthy. They're young when they don't need supplements. But do kidney supplements?

And if so, what supplements are non negotiable? And and, you know, what what kid what should kids be taking?

Dr. Elisa Song:
You know, especially if I don't

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And not Flintstone vitamins.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Ah, Winston vitamins, please. If I have the opportunity to check Lab Mark, then I will supplement individual nutrients based on the lab work. You know, many, many kids are gonna have, especially if they have chronic issues. They will have issues with methylation and need more mental factors, but I have yet to see a young kid with a an elevated home assisting. Maybe on their urine.

So I will do urine organic acid test because they're so much easier to get. So much easier to get a poop test and a blood test sometimes. A pee test than a blood test sometimes. If we wanna look at methylation stress, you can look at methamylonic acid or fig glue for Hyman glutamic acid. Said.

Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
These are just markers of folate or b 12 deficiency that you can see in the urine.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. And then, you know, even on on stool testing, if I see inflammation or digestive insufficiency. Right? They're not digesting. They're not absorbing.

They're fats or, you know, they're proteins. So they're carbohydrates. I might do digestive enzymes. But across the board, I would say virtually all kids need extra vitamin d, even in the middle of summer when kids are out at summer camp and they have that golden tan, even then when measured kids there, not optimal.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
True.

Dr. Elisa Song:
So and in the northern hemisphere where we live, apart from summer, you're really not gonna get enough conversion through your in in any other season.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And unless you're running around half naked and a bean suit for, you know, at least half an hour a day and from 10 to 2 in the

Dr. Elisa Song:
Not lathered in sunscreen.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Not laddered in sunscreen. You're not gonna get exposures that are gonna make a difference. Yeah. Maybe for a life card, you'd be alright. That might

Dr. Elisa Song:
be fun. Yeah. But so almost all kids, and I would bet their parents to need vitamin d. So vitamin d 3. Do they need k 2?

I'll add k 2 when they when they get older for sure for teenagers. Almost all kids need an omega 3. Yeah. A fish oil. Right.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
So important for ADD, depression, skin health, hair, all of it. Yeah. And their

Dr. Elisa Song:
kids, hormones, if if Kids have, atopic eczema asthma, I'll make it a 369 fish oil, omega 6 supplement with GLA, So that's an omega 6 guys found in Mirage, Black Herons, evening promos. It's really good for autoimmune and atopic. Conditions.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. People think all omega sixes are bad. They're not they're not good or bad. They just it's the quantity we have, and it's certain types are actually really beneficial. Like, you're talking about GLA, which is from evening primrose or borage oil.

Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Yes. It's so important. So I would say those are my staples, and I I will say I am forever on the hunt for a high quality children's multivitamin that I love.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
You haven't found one?

Dr. Elisa Song:
I mean, I found a few that I'm okay with. Right? And none is perfect, but there's some that are better than others. Yeah. What I would move away from are some of the over the counter

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Gummy vitamins.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Gummy vitamins. Now some, like, we carried a gummy line line that was awesome because each gummy only had point 5 grams of sugar. But some of them, if kids are getting the gummy vitamin d and some of gummy magnesium and, you know, gummy vitamins. I mean, in that, like, handful of gummies that they're gladly chomping away on, you know, before they head off to school, they might have had, like, 4 teaspoons of sugar in that one sitting. Right?

And so we don't wanna send our kids off with with a mouthful of sugar.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And how do parents go about finding good products, like, you know, omega 3, vitamin d, and multi, maybe zinc if they needed, magnesium, robotics. I mean, it's it's kind of a a zoo out there to find the right

Dr. Elisa Song:
It is. It is kind of a zoo. I mean, I use a practitioner

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Brands.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Brands. Right? Because

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I Available to consumers.

Dr. Elisa Song:
That's right.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I mean, pure encapsulations.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Designs for health as available to consumers. I think Zymogen now is available to consumers. So, it's much easier to find. And what I tell folks is either purchase from your practitioner who you know is, you know, storing handling things well. If you're going to buy from Amazon, make sure you buy it from the manufacturer's store.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Not from, like, Judy's health food store.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. Because all of these, like, you might they might buy a a lot that someone's expired. They might have it on sitting on the turmeric you know, in a warehouse that's at a 120 degrees, and it's a problem out there. So you should be careful for for products you buy on on Amazon. I wanna sort of dive into a topic.

We talked about the gut. We talked about dye. We talked about testing and supplementation, and there's so much more in your book, healthy kids, happy kids, everybody who's had a kid is gonna have a kid or is gonna have a grandkid needs to get this book. Let's talk about a controversial subject here, which is vaccines. Because it's a question I probably get most, which is, should I vaccinate my kid?

How many vaccines should I get? Should I get all I get none of them? Should I get some of them? When should I get them? What's the schedule should I take them on?

Are they safe? Do they cause autism? And and one of the challenges in medicine today is that it's become a bit of a religious phenomena in the conversation. It's not a scientific conversation anymore. And I wanna have an adult conversation about vaccines because they are like any other intervention in medicine, whether it's Tylenol or aspirin, or even a supplement.

It's an intervention that has potential benefits and potential risks. And for some reason, we're not allowed to talk about any of the risks in medicine. It's literally heresy. I was at Cleveland Clinic, and I literally had to write a public statement saying that I was not against vaccines Oh

Dr. Elisa Song:
my gosh.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
By by the pediatric institute because they somehow kinda got wind that I talked about some of the challenges in vaccines. And I was like, wow, you know, this is this has gotten to be almost like pro life poach pro choice Republican Democrat era. Israeli, it's like, wait a

Dr. Elisa Song:
minute. Yes.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Like, this is not so polarized. We we have science. We can talk about these things intelligently, and they're they're not all good. They're not all bad. And what's happened in in in in, you know, since I was trained is that there are so many more vaccines than they were, and there's so many more amended.

And I just wanna sort of lay a little bit of the stage for people because now I remember, getting recertified for my board, my board certification. And I went to a UCSF, prep course because you, you know, when you kind of forget stuff. So you go to, like, a week long prep course to kinda kinda refresh your memory about it Well, here's the year

Dr. Elisa Song:
to refresh your memory about. Right? It's the conventional stuff that you're not doing anymore because you know there are other functional Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. But but even, you know, even so, I mean, it was really it's a good background. And it was, like, what are the latest things we should be doing? And a pediatrician got up from UCSF, and this was probably like, oh gosh. Put him in 15 years ago more.

He got up and he said, you know, here's the vaccine schedule that's recommended now. But I gotta tell you, this is a lot of vaccines. And I'm

Dr. Elisa Song:
like Wow. Okay.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
He was kind of almost sheapishly saying this was the standard of care recommendation. And, you know, there were 8 jabs at kids' god. Now there's like, I think 70 plus vaccines they can get. And part of that had to do with the indemnification of vaccine manufacturers who basically were gonna get out of the vaccine business because it was too risky, you know, too hard to do studies. And so the government said, no, we think vaccines are important.

We're gonna protect you. Mhmm. You guys go ahead and do your discovery. You make the vaccines. We're gonna take all the liability.

So we're gonna if somebody sues you, can't sue you. They're gonna have to sue the government Hyman we're gonna settle in vaccine court. And there's over $5,000,000,000 of settlements in vaccine Court for vaccine injury. So it's not like a trivial thing. There's whole fields now of scientific inquiry around vaccinomics, which is understanding how you match your vaccine schedule or your dosage or your type to your particular genetics.

And and so I think I think we need to have this sort of an intelligent conversation because you'll hear vaccines cause autism. Well, no. They don't. It's it's it's a whole consequences of of different insults that maybe make kids predisposed when they get an insult, whether it's an infection or some kind of stress or a vaccine that then triggers something. But can you talk about, as a pediatrician, how you help parents navigate this landscape of vaccines?

Yeah. When they're you know, come to you with their first baby visit and throughout the early childhood years, how do you advise them to think about this and to customize this approach to Intelligent vaccine use. Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
I love so much of what you said because really, I mean, in our in our kind of modern day of medicine where Hopefully, we truly are moving more towards precision personalized medicine. Why not have that same approach to vaccines. It has become a bit of a religion. And simply

Dr. Mark Hyman:
by you get you get canceled if you say anything against vaccines. Right?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. And you're almost, if you just wanna have a discussion, you're immediately branded as 100% anti vaccine. Which, you know, what I've always told

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I'm pro science. How about we like, you know, my friend once said, you know, I'm I'm for safe planes. It doesn't mean I'm anti flying.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yep. Yeah. Yes. 100%. I mean, that's what I tell families is, look, I am not 100% vaccine or a 100% anti vaccine.

What I am is 100% your child. Right? And that is the only thing that is important here and what we need to do just like everything else. I mean, even with medications, we know with some of, some of the, you know, genetic SNP testing that that this little child might actually need more a higher dose of a certain medicine than a full grown man because of the way they metabolize. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Elisa Song:
And so, just as you said, vaccinomics is this field that is trying to figure out how to make vaccines more effective based on your genomic profile. Adversomics is a flip side where which is not their many fewer or way fewer studies on adverseomics, which studies the genomics behind who may be more risk for adverse reactions to vaccines than there are on vaccinomics, but we need to get there. Right? And We're not there yet. So how do we then think intelligently about what is right for this one child?

And this is where we have our public health you know, outcomes that we'd like.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Mhmm.

Dr. Elisa Song:
But when you're in the office, you're looking at this individual trial. Right? And so we have to look at family history because we know that certain seems like hepatitis B is in the literature known to temporarily cause a skewing towards autoimmunity. Yeah. So if I have a child in front of me where every single family member has some autoimmune disease.

Am I gonna be more worried about them getting hepatitis b, especially at that young vulnerable age when they're an infant? Maybe. Okay. And

Dr. Mark Hyman:
that's a vaccine that is protecting against the disease, hepatitis b caused by intravenous drug use and sexual activity. Hyman we're giving it to babies in the hospital the day or chapter 2 after they're born. Mhmm. Why? Because we have them captive, and we might not get them back.

But it makes no medical sense.

Dr. Elisa Song:
It would maybe make medical sense if, you know, mom

Dr. Mark Hyman:
or Simon. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's great.

Dr. Elisa Song:
But apart from that, it's true. So this is also where we have the science, and then we need to really let our logical Mark rational power brain kick in. Why would a newborn? Who doesn't have risk factors for contracting hepatitis B need it right then and there. Could they wait until they're, you know, preteen teenagers thinking about becoming sexually active?

Like, why not? And that's what I always ask. My pediatrician friends who maybe are not on the same boat. Like, if you can explain to me a compelling reason, why a newborn who is 0 risk factor should get this right then and there. And we know that they're not getting it lost to the health care system, you know, the reliable families, you know, then then tell me.

Right? The other thing that that, you know, we we really wanna think about is from a logical standpoint, that infant hepatitis B dose that, as you said, like a one day old would get,

Dr. Mark Hyman:
is the very same dose that in my

Dr. Elisa Song:
office, I would give to a seventeen year old, you know, teenage football player who weighs £200.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Right. So

Dr. Elisa Song:
you have £7 baby on one hand, £200 teenager, young adult, on the other hand, same hepatitis bidos. So it that also doesn't make sense to me. Right. So as I kinda walk through And I think about what do kids need to get for, like, maybe daycare school reasons. And for some families, they don't have the option to stay at home or, you know, homeschool their kids or move to another state, let's say.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
If your

Dr. Elisa Song:
if your state does have more restrictive vaccine policies and don't allow you to choose a a more flexible schedule for your child. Well, our hands are kinda tied then. So the way I try to really think about it is you know, when I give vaccines It's

Dr. Mark Hyman:
sort of interesting that the state is interfering in medical decisions. Yeah. I think that's true.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Absolutely. I mean, this this should be wonderful.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Imagine imagine you know, the government deciding which statin you should be on or which blood pressure pill you should be on or when you should get it or if you I mean, it it's kind of odd. Right?

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's a it's

Dr. Mark Hyman:
a public health issue. I get it. But but, it's it's a little bit heavy handed. And I think, you know, one of the things that I I I have a challenge with the vaccines, and then I think, you know, we talk about evidence based medicine. Now each of the vaccines have been tested in in in a single vaccines.

Mhmm. For relatively short periods and small groups of people. So we don't really know how they work long term in large groups

Dr. Elisa Song:
of people.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. But what what's not done, and and this I think we don't practice evidence based medicine in this context. Is we've never looked at the concoction of all the vaccines in the dosing schedule that we've given to kids when you give so many vaccines at once. And and what that does to their immune system, to their biology, to their proteomics, to their metabolomics, to their epigenetics, to their immune system. We don't we don't even look at it.

Yeah. So essentially, we sort of vaccines are state. We don't need to study them. End of story. Just give them.

And it's just the most unscientific thing I mean, I think vaccines have been one of the most beneficial things that humanity has ever discovered. But like do kids need every single vaccine from the minute they're born, I don't think they do. Like, they need the important ones.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yeah. I mean, to your point too, I mean, same thing with, you know, environmental talk or, you know, ultra processed food ingredients. Maybe we've tested in isolation each ingredient or each toxin, but not the concoction, as you said, and many are found to have harmful synergistic, meaning it's not just 1+1 equals 2 bad. It's like 1+1 might equal ten times the bad. So, you know, when we think about this vaccine schedule, what what I try to work with families on then is I like to do one at a time, right, at first.

Right? Because then if a child is going to have a reaction, we know exactly which one they react.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
So you you do, you know, like, for example, a lot of these vaccines come in cocktails. Like, MMR, measles, mumps and rubella, or tetanus, diphtherian pertussis, like, dbt. So how do you deal with those pockets?

Dr. Elisa Song:
A great great point because with those, we don't have an option.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
There used

Dr. Elisa Song:
to be a separate MR. Now there's only just MR. And the TDAP, you could potentially get you know, tetanus separately, but it's hard to hard to find. Right? I would say one grouping.

So polio separately, detached separately, Mark separately, varicella separately. If if given the choice, I do think, you know, knowing how profoundly a baby's immune system changes in that 1st month of life, 1st 3 to 6 months of life, you know, 1st year of life, you know, if we can wait a little bit just to let their immune system start to do its thing set a good healthy microbiome if only for the fact that we know that an optimal gut microbiome can improve vaccine Kissie. So if that's our only goal, then then even

Dr. Mark Hyman:
that's right. That's a really profound statement you just said. Let's get the kids healthy and optimize our microbiome before we start vaccinate them. And that should start even preconception.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Yes. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
And then when the mother's pregnant taking her Hyman then maybe getting the baby, Bifidobacterium and Fantis early on and the right prebiotics that you mentioned. Yeah. And let's get their guts healthy. And What I've seen is kids who are somehow compromised are the ones who have trouble with vaccines. Kids who have had tons of antibiotics, ear infections, who have gut issues, who have these kinds of problems early on when they get vaccines, they're the ones who intend to have the issues.

Do you see that?

Dr. Elisa Song:
You know, yes and no. I mean, I would say my population, my patients where we work so closely together around vaccine schedules, and I support them. I give supplements before and after to help help them with their methylation. And we know a lot of these vaccines can stress the mitochondria. So I provide mitochondrial supports.

You know, I optimize their nutrient levels and make sure they're getting vitamin d and you know, many of these vaccines will have not just aluminum, but formaldehyde and other ingredients. So how do I get them to clear that out faster? Well, I'm making sure taking extra glutathione and vitamin C and up some salt baths. So, I mean, knock on wood, most of my kids do so well because and I I really do think it's because prep them. We allow space in between vaccines for the body to do its thing.

Hopefully, mountain effective immune response because that's why we're giving the vaccine anyway, settle back down to baseline before we do the next one.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
So are there any resources for parents people listening that they could go to to learn about how to do this more intelligently and scientifically.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Okay. I'm gonna be totally honest. I mean, it's it's been hard for me to be able to share a lot of this publicly. Right?

Dr. Mark Hyman:
I mean cancelled. Alright. I

Dr. Elisa Song:
mean, just that's the truth of it. I do, you know, at, you know, at practitioner conferences, I I try to teach practitioners the science behind different vaccines, what we know about aversonics, what we know about vaccinomics, what supplements may be beneficial, what lifestyle factors? Cause we know exercise before and after vaccines may reduce vaccine, adverse reactions while improving efficacy. A good night sleep. You know, they fed the the sleep 2 nights before actually improves vaccine efficacy, reducing the sugars around.

So I try to help other practitioners so that they can help their individual patients. But then on a I I know that there are some physicians who have, you know, vaccine, online education programs for for families. I haven't taken them, so I don't know. What exactly say. I think I do think that they're on the same page as I am that it's not a never.

It's not a follow the schedule 100%. It's a less be smart about this evidence based and personalized. Yep.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Yeah. And I, you know, there's a a colleague of mine and years ago she wrote a book. It was quite a while ago. 2001 called what your doctor may not tell you about children's vaccinations, as a guide to understand, you know, how to make knowledgeable responsible science big choices about vaccinating their children. So I I shouldn't be able to check that.

I might be a little dated, but I think it's probably still and I think there are so many more vaccines than even when that book was written. You know, so it's kinda crazy, but you're really such an incredible resource for parents. You know, I I was joking before we were going to get get a snack. I said, you know, you're kinda like the new doctor Spock. For those who don't know who doctor Spock was.

He was a doctor in the sixties at all. Parents read his book. You know, doctor Spock's guide. Raising your kid. I remember where the title was.

I met him actually when he was in his nineties, really, really cool guy. But he he, you know, my mother read that book. I was at home and all every parent has it. Every parent really should sprout in have this book. Healthy, happy kids.

You can get everywhere. Books are sold. You can go online and you can, find the book, at healthy kids, happy kids.com. Check it out. It's called healthy kids, happy kids, an integrated pediatric guide to hold child resilience.

So that's really what this is about, making your kids resilient so that they don't have to suffer from so many of these childhood problems that we're seeing from allergies and autoimmunity and gut issues to ADD and autism to learning disabilities to autoimmunity and and in mental health disorders, depression. All these things are related to these things we're talking about. And we we in traditional medicine, we treat them all as separate little individual issues. But if you get to the root causes, which we're talking about, which is your nutrition, your gut health, your nutritional status, toxic levels, and many things that we can actually do something about. Then these kids get better.

And they're incredibly resilient, and they respond really well to these approaches. And it's quite I've seen just so many miracles in my practice. I know you have 2. When you start to apply this, it's really satisfying. So parents out there listening, if you're struggling with any health issues with your kids, just immediately go get this book right now.

Lisa, thanks so much for what you've done to bring this field forward. Being an advocate for a functional medicine approach to pediatrics. We really need you the world needs you, and, thanks for everything you do.

Dr. Elisa Song:
Oh, thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Mark Hyman:
Thanks for listening today. If you love this podcast, please share it with your friends and family. Leave a comment on your own best practices on how you upgrade your health and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow me on all social media channels at doctor Dr. Mark Hyman:, and we'll see you next time on the doctor's Farmacy. I'm always getting questions about my favorite books, podcasts, gadgets, supplements, recipes, and lots more. And now you can have us to all of this information by signing up for my free Mark picks newsletter at doctor hyman.com forward slash Mark picks.

I promise I'll only email you once a week on Fridays and I'll never share email address or send you anything else besides my recommendations. These are things that helped me on my health journey, and I hope they'll help you too. Again, that's Hyman. Thank you again, and we'll see you next time on the doctor's Farmacy. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Teltra wellness center, and my work at Cleveland Clinic And Function Health, where I'm the chief medical officer.

This podcast represents my opinions and my guest opinions. And neither myself nor the podcast endorse the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only. This podcast is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. This podcast is provided on the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services.

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